The champagne corks are popping, the mood is exuberant. “To a world without deportations” is the toast for the release of the first episodes of the podcast “So not ordered” – in view of the Corona pandemic, it is a very small celebration. Spontaneously organized, by means of a bottle of sparkling wine from the late-night sale. Given the topic, even the photo seems somehow off Sandra finds – it’s about a critical podcast on deportations. We were lucky enough to be there and talked to the makers.
Who are you?
“Sandra and Mark” is Sandra’s succinct answer. “We know each other from the work around flight and asylum in Saxony” adds Mark. “Specifically, we know each other from the Refugee Council of Saxony, where Markt was active and the consultation at Bon Courage. We decided to produce a podcast and send it from Bon Courage e.V. in Borna” Sandra concretizes.
What has it with the name “so not ordered” on itself?
Mark: This is the unspeakable statement on the deportation of 69 people on the 69th birthday of Federal Minister of the Interior Horst Seehofer. He meant after 04 July 2018 that he had “so not ordered”. Against the background that a person took his own life after the deportation, the name imposed itself.
Sanrda: The name is also representative of an asylum system that hardly deserves the name anymore.
What do you have on your ears?
Sandra: The first two episodes are a bit special. In the first episode we introduce the podcast. In the second episode, a special episode, we want to introduce the topic. On the one hand, we want to make the feeling of helplessness tangible, and on the other hand, we want to create visions. For this we ask the question, how it can look instead. For this purpose we use 3 real examples – how they happened and how they could have happened.
Two episodes a month are planned. In one episode, a person affected will have his or her say. So a person who is threatened with deportation or the administrative act has already been executed. In the second episode, we always have an expert as a guest who contextualizes the situation. We slowly approach the topic of deportation in order to pick up people who otherwise have nothing to do with the topic.
Mark: I think that’s very good.
What do you want to achieve with the podcast?
Mark: Abolish deportations – negatively formulated. A change of the §1 Asylum law in “right to stay for all” – positively formulated.
Sandra: Until then, the intermediate steps certainly count. So information about what deportations mean. So concretely nightly deportations, children, family separations, the fear of it….
Mark: There are permanent massive violations of fundamental rights. We bring light into the darkness.
Is there really so much to tell about deportations that it’s worth having a podcast of its own?
Sandra: We have planned a season with two episodes every month. This is more or less a round-up as an introduction. It’s about the situation at airports, in the countries of origin, in the deportation jails – without telling too much, you can definitely fill a year with it. This is not a podcast for eternity, because there will not be deportations forever.
How do you get in touch with people in deportation jails?
Sandra: Thanks to our network. In Dresden, that’s the deportation prison contact group. The interview from the jail will come in June.
Mark: There are also contacts from our own contexts. These are people who live here and have already been deported.
Is the podcast limited to Saxony?
Mark: It has nationwide relevance, but is primarily about Saxony.
Sandra: The Saxon deportation policy is, compared to other states, except for Bavaria, also more rigid.
Why should people take on such a difficult topic?
Sandra: That’s a good question. Somehow we are all responsible for it.
Mark: To make public what governments do in secret. Somehow it should be a broad social alliance that takes on the issue.
Sandra: In the past, when there was publicity, there was always solidarity.
Mark: Exactly then, it was also often spoken of individual cases. Weeks later, however, the same thing happened. Look at the deportation of Faisal, the separation of marriages. This happens all the time. 16 times between 2015 and 2019, 20 family separations in 2016, 14 in 2019, 12 in 2020.
Sandra: We are about making people visible that you don’t see in everyday life. It’s pleasant to listen to the people affected – that’s what our podcast makes possible.